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TONY WLLIAMS

Never be afraid of the Truth!
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Member Since: 6/2008Last Seen: 11/25/2009

Many feared dead after Israeli strikes in Gaza

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Israel's air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip, destroying several Hamas compounds and killing at least 40 people, a Hamas police spokesman said, according to Reuters.

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{"commentId":4733959,"authorDomain":"flagger89-1"}

So on I ramble...forgive me that indulgence..


I am not a religious man, but I do love God, whoever he is, his creation is more than any man can know.

I love both cats and dogs, and so this is one of my favorite writings..its by Garrison Keillor:


"The Meaning Of Life"...

To know and to serve God, of course, is why we’re here; a clear truth that, like the nose on your face, is near at hand and easily discernable but can make you dizzy if you try to focus on it hard.

But a little faith will see you through. What else will do except faith in such a cynical, corrupt times?

When the country goes temporarily to the dogs, cats learn to be circumspect, walk on fences, sleep in trees, and have faith that all this woofing is not the last word.

Time to shut up and be beautiful, and wait for morning.

Yahooism, when in power, is deaf, and neither satire nor Gospel will stay its brutal hand, but hang on, another chapter follows.

Our brave hopes for changing the world sank in port, and we have become the very people we used to make fun of, the old and hesitant, but never mind, that’s not the whole story either.

So hang on.

What keeps our faith cheerful is the extreme presence of gentleness and humor.

Gentleness is everywhere in daily life, a sign that faith rules through ordinary things; through cooking and small talk, through storytelling, making love, fishing, tending animals and sweet corn and flowers, through sports, music and books, raising kids-all the places where the gravy soaks in and the grace shines through.

Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people.

Jesus,(God), is weeping.

Speaker For The Dead

{"commentId":4733959,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flagger89-1"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#926 - Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:53 PM EST
{"commentId":4737899,"authorDomain":"trishaphillips"}

Tony was correct when he said all Muslims were not terrorists.  We have many Muslims who live here in America.  I think that perhaps the reason they came to our beloved country was to most likely escape the radical Muslims/terrorists in their countries.  Who can blame them.

 We have many Americans, unfortunately, who are evil people as all countries do.  Unfortunately, America has experienced a small amount of domestic terrorism.  But, we don't have to be afraid on a day by day basis that we are going to be murdered within by terrorists or from terrorists of another country.  We have had one foreign terrorist attack on 9/11 and it could happen again, but we don't live in that fear.  Our everday lives are not based on having to live that way.  Therefore, I cannot in any way imagine how terrible it must be to live in a hotbed as the Middle East not knowing from day to day when my family and other American citizens will be blown up.  It's impossible to know that kind of fear when you haven't experienced it on a daily basis. 

As much as I hate to believe it, I do not think there is any way that peace can be brought to the ME because of the terrorist ideology that rules that part of the world.  Pure evil will never give in to any type of peace and cannot abide by the laws of the land.  Terrorists are the most evil breed of people on this earth because human life has no value whatsoever to them.  These satanic people are like none we have ever seen before and will forever, as long as this world exists, continue their evil desires of destruction and their desire  to conquer and rule.  That is fact and we can't dismiss it.  There will always be a bloodbath in that part of our world until Jesus comes back in the end days to conquer Satan.  This is God's prophecies being fulfilled.  Therefore, in the meantime, any country (like Israel) who is constantly attacked by terrorists has to defend herself. 

{"commentId":4737899,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"trishaphillips"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#927 - Fri Jan 9, 2009 3:25 PM EST
{"commentId":4742939,"authorDomain":"oneatatime"}
One at a time pleaseDeleted
{"commentId":4747256,"authorDomain":"jdonnelly"}

And this thread is now dead!! Goodbye all!

{"commentId":4747256,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"jdonnelly"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#929 - Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:27 AM EST
{"commentId":4770211,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

I will limit this post to two repetitions n this thread so that it will not become mere  "spam".

Truthinator

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is for Tony and NowOrNever and all people who think it is important to repeat the assertion that not all Muslims are terrorists.  Read carefully and,  preferably,  multiple times.

A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything.  I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.


We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. 


The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is 
the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.


The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful  [Muslim] majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. 


Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. 


China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people. 


The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a war mongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. 


And who can forget Rwanda  which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'? 


History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:  Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. 


Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. 

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life. 


Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this message without sending it on is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and thin k about it, and send it on before it's too late.

Emanuel Tanay, M.D.

Dr. Emanuel Tanay,a clinical professor of psychiatry at the Medical School, Dr. Emanuel Tanay MD  is a well-known forensic psychiatrist who has been an expert witness in many famous cases, such as the trials of Jack Ruby, Ted Bundy, Sam Sheppard, and Robert Garwood. He is licensed to practice in Ohio and Georgia, as well as Michigan. Dr. Tanay has served as an officer or committee member of many professional organizations, such as the Michigan Psychiatric Society, the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, the American Psychiatric Association (APA), and others. He is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and of the American Board of Forensic Psychiatry and a distinguished fellow of the APA and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFC). A Holocaust survivor himself, he coauthored a book about the survivors of the  Holocaust and was asked by the German government to consult on just compensation for the Holocaust survivors. Dr. Tanay has served on several journal editorial boards, authored many publications, and presented countless times on forensic medicine. His efforts have also produced many awards and commendations from groups such as the Michigan State Medical Society, APA, the Detroit Institute of Technology, and AAFC, among others.

{"commentId":4770211,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
    Reply#930 - Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:18 PM EST
    {"commentId":4770389,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

    Your forgetting a very important fact and so is the doc. In every one of the examples the people said enough is enough and then started to not only fight back but to win in most cases.

     It doesn't take a degree to learn from history. It takes one person that is willing to stand-up, risk there life, and say "Enough is Enough". Even a coward will fight if there life is in danger but someone they love more than their own life is also in danger.

    {"commentId":4770389,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
    • 2 votes
    #930.1 - Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:37 PM EST
    {"commentId":4770896,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

    Tony:  He also forgot the importance of fact-checking anonymous emails.  My post at 921.2 identifies the real author, and perhaps a little bit of the author's own bias.

    I like what you wrote...in a very dark time, it helps to remember that a light still shines, and that even one person may carry it.

    {"commentId":4770896,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
    • 2 votes
    #930.2 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:51 AM EST
    {"commentId":4771333,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

    As noted in my response to your post above Dharma Girl,  I did  "fact check"  this post and either I was mislead regarding the original author,  or you are mistaken.  Please post the relevant URL so that I now can fact-check your assertion.

    As far as Marek's biases,  I might have a quarrel with some of his ideas,  but unlike you,  I try to evaluate the ideas people have based on the merit of the actual ideas - not based upon other ideas they have unrelated to the idea under discussion.  For example,  I read a movie review recently dissing Will Smith's performance in  "Seven Pounds"  becuase he might be a Scientologist and because they hate his "jive" persona in other roles - even though that persona is a total no-show in "Seven Pounds",  which is a great movie.  What you said about Marek is exactly consistent with this sort of thinking,  leading me to ask:  just who is the bigot here?

    Tony, you're correct, and because you're correct,  the question is begged:  so who will be the heroic leader in the world of Islam who will stand up and lead the charge against the hateful muslim fanatics?  Have you seen anyone moving into this role yet? I haven't,  although Anwar el Sadat came closest,  or maybe Salman Rushdie, or maybe psychologist Wafa Sultan.  But I just identified a bit of a problem for such heroic would-be leaders in the world of Isalm,   didn't I?  Colonel Claus von Staufenberg  (as portrayed by Tom Cruise in Valkyrie)  had that same problem contending with Hitler.  Standing up to cutthroat murderers  (cutthroat seems a good term for these killers)  apparently only can be effective when the collective hoard of right-minded humanity makes up its mind to confront and obliterate the genocidal tyrants. 

    It takes a lot for right-minded humanity to reach that point,  due in no small measure to the difficulty of overcoming the obstacles to right-thinking action posed by liberal apologists who need to find some  "reason"  or primal wound needing a healing touch or bending over backwards to see what must have been the terrible wrong done to such cutthroats or they would not be so angry. 

    A cult is a cult,  a sociopath is a sociopath,  and first blood is first blood.  Sometimes the handwringing search for alternatives does nothing more than add to the body count.

    Truthinator

    {"commentId":4771333,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
      #930.3 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:18 AM EST
      {"commentId":4771611,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

      I do not know who at this point. What I do know is having been to Muslim Countries I have found both good and evil. The same as I have found everywhere I've been. The short list of my travels includes Germany, England, France, Thailand, Saudi, Turkey, Korea, Finland, Iceland, Greenland, Hawaii, Alaska, Philippines, Saipan, Japan, and Canada. From those I have been to others and in all of them I found one overall truth.

      Treat people they way you wish for them to treat you. Don't judge by culture but by the person. Be accepting and they will in turn accept you. For all our differences one thing remains unchanged and that being we all live the best we can with what we have. We have hopes, dreams, family, love, and a million things for which we are alike. Leave the misconceptions behind and there is nothing to separate those facts. Even in Countries where radical belief comes into play we are still the same. Some are just afraid to risk it all and speak out from fear. Some will follow like sheep. Then you find a few which remind you why and how life is a gift. Freedom is a gift. Why our history is filled with men and women willing to protect all aspects of that gift and die if it means just one gift can be saved.

      {"commentId":4771611,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
      • 2 votes
      #930.4 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:41 AM EST
      {"commentId":4771810,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

      Truthinator:  If you can't google Paul E. Marek and click on the first search result, which is at IsraelNationalNews.com, as I mentioned, I guess I can see why you rely on anonymous email for your facts.  It doesn't matter to me one way or the other if you care about the truth of what you post, or if you figure it out once it is pointed out to you; I posted what I did so that anyone who read your post would not be misled, unless they chose to be.

      And I mentioned a couple of his other opinions in counterpoint to the rather lengthy bio you posted of the person who did NOT write that email.  Marek's bio was rather short, comparatively.  You have as much idea of how I evaluate the ideas people have as you do of my political stance; to the extent that this is based on a misunderstanding of what I wrote, I am sorry to have misled you.

      Especially considering the kinds of things you want to do to people who disagree with you. 

      {"commentId":4771810,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
      • 1 vote
      #930.5 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:16 AM EST
      {"commentId":4771958,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

      Tony, have you ever read any of Faiza Al-Arji's blog?  She is an Iraqi Muslim (Shia) woman who has been blogging since about the time we invaded Iraq.  Her husband is Palestinian, her 3 sons (one Sunni, one secular--he lives in Northern California now) are grown, and her blog was an incredible opening into the heart of someone I would never meet in person. 

      I can't see that the first few months were archived, which is too bad--reading the changes that this one woman went through as her country was invaded and then occupied was heartbreaking, but very important. 

      I think she is too depressed to write much, anymore, but she posted yesterday about Gaza.  With her husband being Palestinian, you can probably guess at her point of view.  It has been sad watching her change from the open-hearted, optimistic woman she was, to someone who is being driven increasingly to find the only solace she can, in her religion.  I don't mean that she was less devout earlier on, just that she once had some faith in humans, as well.  I am not sure she has any of that left, with what she has seen and experienced. 

      When one of her sons was disappeared by one of the many ministries that exercises police powers in Iraq (his crime was accessing his brother's blog while waiting for the registration office at his college to open so he could sign up for his classes--his brother being politically vocal, and not supportive of the occupation) for some weeks, as soon as they got him home, they left the country.  You can feel her yearning for home, though, and I don't think she will be posting much more.  It's been a long 5+ years.

      {"commentId":4771958,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
      • 1 vote
      #930.6 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:17 AM EST
      Reply
      {"commentId":4770353,"authorDomain":"cliffbourgeois"}

       When you teach a man to hate and fear his brother, when you teach that he is a lesser man because of his color or his beliefs or the policies he pursues, when you teach that those who differ from you threaten your freedom or your job or your family, then you also learn to confront others not as fellow citizens but as enemies, to be met not with cooperation but with conquest; to be subjugated and mastered.

      We learn, at the last, to look at our brothers as aliens, men with whom we share a city, but not a community; men bound to us in common dwelling, but not in common effort. We learn to share only a common fear, only a common desire to retreat from each other, only a common impulse to meet disagreement with force. For all this, there are no final answers.

      Yet we know what we must do. It is to achieve true justice among our fellow citizens. The question is not what programs we should seek to enact. The question is whether we can find in our own midst and in our own hearts that leadership of humane purpose that will recognize the terrible truths of our existence.

      We must admit the vanity of our false distinctions among men and learn to find our own advancement in the search for the advancement of others. We must admit in ourselves that our own children's future cannot be built on the misfortunes of others. We must recognize that this short life can neither be ennobled or enriched by hatred or revenge.

      Our lives on this planet are too short and the work to be done too great to let this spirit flourish any longer in our land. Of course we cannot vanquish it with a program, nor with a resolution.

      But we can perhaps remember, if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers, that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as do we, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and in happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.

      Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men, and surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again.

      Robert F Kennedy on the "Mindless Menace of Violence."

      {"commentId":4770353,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"cliffbourgeois"}
        Reply#931 - Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:33 PM EST
        {"commentId":4776095,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

        Again I don't disagree with most of what you wrote,  Tony,  and I am about as world traveled as you.  I just returned from Ukraine,  lived in Africa for  6 months,  London for  7  months,  Israel for  1.5  years.  I was the guest of Israeli Arabs for a weekend at a wedding of the village leader''s son,  and my best friend there is a woman whose parents are Iraqi Jewish immigrants.  Israelis know what they have to do to survive better than any other people on the planet.  Good people like Dharma's miserable Palestinian friends have three options:  1)  adapt to life in the diaspora just as the Jews did for two millenia after most of them were evicted from Israel by the Romans  (You don't read about Jewish suicide bombers in history books,  do you?);  2) Stand up to their misguided hamas leaers and throw them out of power;  or  3)  Wage war against Israel until the last drop of blood is shed and the last person is left standing.  If you were Palestinian,  what would you do?

        Israel has bent over backwards to make peace.  Israel is a democracy and permits debate and dissent.  Arabs write columns critical of Israeli policies in Haaretz.  If a Palestinian dissents with hamas,  they get murdered as collaboraters.  You can see their dilemma.

        But notice that the West Bank is quiet.  I recently read an article discussing a resurgence of prosperity there.  (Unemployment  23%  and dropping;  49% in Gaza.)  This begs another question:  could there be a better alternative for Palestinians than swearing to the destruction of the State of Israel?  Because you can bet your best boots that if Israel is forced to combat an enemy sworn to its destruction,  Israel indeed will fight until the last person standing. 

        I'm not sure what Dharma Girl means when she keeps referring to an  "anonymous"  post.  Everything I submitted was signed,  even if erroneously.  I don't have much to say to her.  I find her pompous and arrogant,  but most of all,  I find her dangerous to a  free world.  She may not be who you think she is.

        Truthinator

        {"commentId":4776095,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
          Reply#932 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:40 PM EST
          {"commentId":4777554,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

          Why thank you, Truthinator, I find you much the same. 

          Except, of course, I wouldn't call you a murderer just because you are not much troubled with facts, and your idea of "fact-checking" is to demand a URL from the person you disagree with.  In general, fact-checking actually requires a couple of seconds or even a few minutes of independent research.  Oh, dear, I suppose I am genocidal, now.

          When someone points out a factual error in something I have posted, I don't call them a murderer, or warn someone who knows them better than I that they might not be who that person thinks.  I take the pompous and arrogant step of thanking them.  Because facts actually do matter to me.  (That is why I am willing to look for them.)

          And I don't imagine you are really dangerous to any world, despite your bloodthirsty inclinations.  So I guess I find you only a little bit the same, after all.

          I didn't mean to be mysterious when I referred to "anonymous emails", not "posts".  In case what I actually wrote doesn't make any more sense to you, perhaps I have incorrectly labeled the kind of email that is forwarded all over the place (often over a period of years, although I see this one is actually under 2 years old), that includes such heartfelt appeals as

           Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this message without sending it on is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and thin k about it, and send it on before it's too late

          and that almost always either has no factual basis at all, or at the very least is attributed to someone who is seen (and presented) as someone with a certain amount of gravitas--who didn't write or say it.  Your author is excused from being factual, as his is an opinion piece--but whoever sent it is fact averse, or careless at the very least, tacking a pedigree to it that looks much more impressive than the real one.  As is everyone who sends it on (or posts it) without bothering.

          If there is a better name for such emails, I think it would not sound as polite as mine.  But I don't know you, and I could make an argument that the email you posted was at least anonymous email to me.  Fortunately, it took no time at all to identify it correctly.

          And not that I expect you care even a little bit, but anyone who can refer to millions of people who have been at the mercy of mass murderers--the ones with guns and bombs and the craving to use them against others, not the ones like me who commit the equally grave crime of pointing out your factual error--as IRRELEVANT, simply looks ridiculous trying to pretend they have ever even glimpsed the moral high ground.

          The Jews were not irrelevant when they went quietly to the camps, to starvation, to the gas chambers, any more than the Palestinians who are starved and captive now are.  Nor the non-Jewish Germans, the Chinese, Russians, or Rwandans.  People are not irrelevant.  I know it's easier for you to think so, but you don't get to make it so by saying it.

          I wasn't going to bother expressing that to you, but someone else might see this, and I really couldn't let it stand since I had responded at all.

          Since you don't have much to say to me, and for other reasons, I won't be looking for a response--so don't feel like you need seem polite.

          {"commentId":4777554,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
          • 1 vote
          #932.1 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:56 PM EST
          {"commentId":4778953,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

          Dharma Girl:

          It's not that I think you're irrelevant.  I think you're all too relevant.  Mostly I don't want to dialogue with you because your prose is verbose,  repetitive with pointless and obfuscating detail,  and hard to follow logically.  You appear to have no real position at all except to try to denigrate,  provoke or annoy.

          All best,

          Truthinator

          {"commentId":4778953,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
            #932.2 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:17 PM EST
            {"commentId":4779384,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

            Maybe this will be short enough even for you.  If not, I won't lose any sleep over it.

            1. Somehow, when you post something that immoral--referring to millions of human beings as "irrelevant"which had nothing to do with what you thought of me--I think you should be able to remember that you did.  But maybe you will sleep better if you don't.

            2. I don't think I posted anything that could possibly give you the idea that I wanted to "dialogue" with you. 

            Correcting your inaccuracy doesn't indicate a desire to "dialogue" with you, any more than your fact-challenged posts indicate a desire to "dialogue" with anyone, say, who remembers that the Zionists wrote the book on Middle East terrorism, up to and including bombing civilian infrastructure less than a year before the State of Israel came into being, and bombing civilian and British military targets in the years before that.

            {"commentId":4779384,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
            • 1 vote
            #932.3 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:38 PM EST
            {"commentId":4784819,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

            Ah,  now I understand Dharma.  It appears I am not as bright as you and I struggle to keep pace with your quick intellect - that is,  except for the part of your intellect that has a reading comprehension problem - unless English isn't your first language - which I suppose still could create a comprehension problem.  If you re-read Marek's post,  you will see that he does not call these people irrelevant.  He says:  

            "We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.  Although this unqualified assertion may be true,  it is entirely irrelevant." 

            And he goes on further to explain that the reason for this irrelevance rests in the failure of the majority muslim community to stand up to the tyranny in its midst.

            I hope you now are able to grasp that,  if anything,  Marek spoke of an avenue through which those assertions could have very great relevance.

            But on to that tyranny you say was first begun by the Jews of Palestine.  Sorry to disappoint you Dharma Girl,  but the first slaughter in the region in the past century was inflicted upon the indigenous Jews of Hebron by their Arab neighors in  1929.   To wit:

            //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

            For some time, the 800 Jews in Hebron lived in peace with their tens of thousands of Arab neighbors. But on the night of August 23, 1929, the tension simmering within this cauldron of nationalities bubbled over, and for 3 days, Hebron turned into a city of terror and murder. By the time the massacres ended, 67 Jews lay dead and the survivors were relocated to Jerusalem, leaving Hebron barren of Jews for the first time in hundreds of years.

            The summer of 1929 was one of unrest in Palestine. Jewish-Arab tensions were spurred on by the agitation of the mufti in Jerusalem. Just one day prior to the start of the Hebron massacre, three Jews and three Arabs were killed in Jerusalem when fighting broke out after a Muslim prayer service on the Temple Mount. Arabs spread false rumors throughout their communities, saying that Jews were carrying out "wholesale killings of Arabs." Meanwhile, Jewish immigrants were arriving in Palestine in increasing numbers, further exacerbating the Jewish-Arab conflict.

            Hebron had, until this time, been outwardly peaceful, although tension hid below the surface. The Sephardi Jewish community in Hebron had lived quietly with its Arab neighbors for centuries. The Sephardi Jews (Jews who were originally from Spain, North Africa and Arab countries) spoke Arabic and had a cultural connection to their Arab neighbors. In the mid-1800s, Ashkenazi (native European) Jews started moving to Hebron and, in 1925, the Slobodka Yeshiva, officially the Yeshiva of Hevron, Knesset Yisrael-Slobodka, was opened. Yeshiva students lived separately from the Sephardi community, and from the Arab population. Due to this isolation, the Arabs viewed them with suspicion and hatred, and identified them as Zionist immigrants. Despite the general suspicion, however, one yeshiva student, Dov Cohen, still recalled being on "very good" terms with the Arab neighbors. He remembered yeshiva boys taking long walks late at night on the outskirts of the city, and not feeling afraid, even though only one British policeman guarded the entire city.

            On Friday, August 23, 1929, that tranquility was lost. Arab youths started throwing rocks at the yeshiva students. That afternoon, one student, Shmuel Rosenholtz, went to the yeshiva alone. Arab rioters later broke in and killed him, and that was only the beginning.

            Friday night, Rabbi Ya’acov Slonim’s son invited any fearful Jews to stay in his house. The rabbi was highly regarded in the community, and he had a gun. Many Jews took him up on this offer, and many Jews were eventually murdered there.

            As early as 8:00 a.m. on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, Arabs began to gather en masse. They came in mobs, armed with clubs, knives and axes. While the women and children threw stones, the men ransacked Jewish houses and destroyed Jewish property. With only a single police officer in Hebron, the Arabs entered Jewish courtyards with no opposition.

            Rabbi Slonim, who had tried to shelter the Jewish population, was approached by the rioters and offered a deal. If all the Ashkenazi yeshiva students were given over to the Arabs, the rioters would spare the lives of the Sephardi community. Rabbi Slonim refused to turn over the students and was killed on the spot. In the end, 12 Sephardi Jews and 55 Ashkenazi Jews were murdered.

            A few Arabs did try to help the Jews. Nineteen Arab families saved dozens, maybe even hundreds of Jews. Zmira Mani wrote about an Arab named Abu Id Zaitoun who brought his brother and son to rescue her and her family. The Arab family protected the Manis with their swords, hid them in a cellar along with other Jews who they had saved, and found a policeman to escort them safely to the police station at Beit Romano.

            The police station turned into a shelter for the Jews that morning of August 24. It also became a synagogue as the Orthodox Jews gathered there and said their morning prayers. As they finished praying, they began to hear noises outside the building. Thousands of Arabs descended from Har Hebron, shouting "Kill the Jews!" in Arabic. They even tried to break down the doors of the station.

            The Jews were besieged in Beit Romano for three days. Each night, ten men were allowed to leave to attend a funeral in Hebron’s ancient Jewish cemetery for the murdered Jews of the day.

            When the massacre finally ended, the surviving Jews were forced to leave their home city and resettled in Jerusalem. Some Jewish families tried to move back to Hebron, but were removed by the British authorities in 1936 at the start of the Arab revolt. In 1948, the War of Independence granted Israel statehood, but further cut the Jews off from Hebron, a city that was captured by King Abdullah's Arab Legion and ultimately annexed to Jordan.

            When Jews finally gained control of the city in 1967, a small number of massacre survivors again tried to reclaim their old houses. Then defense minister Moshe Dayan supposedly told the survivors that if they returned, they would be arrested, and that they should be patient while the government worked out a solution to get their houses back. Years later, settlers moved to parts of Hebron without the permission of the government, but for those massacre survivors still seeking their original homes, that solution never came.

            jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/hebron29.html

            ///////////////////////////////////////////////

            There was an outlaw terror group that formed in 1947-1948 called irgun that operated outside the law or the approval of most of Israeli society.  They were not a political party that was elevated or  "elected"  to office as was hamas.  And most of their terror acts were directed against the British.  You can read a very good and detailed account of this period in a book called  "O Jersualem"  by Larry Collins and Dominique LaPierre,   French and English journalists,  not Jews,  who have written a very good and objective history of the region in that period of time.  That is,  if truth is of any real interest to you.

            I absolutely do not approve of the acts of terror committed by those Jews.  They appall me.  I absolutely am appalled at the Shatillah and Sabra massacres perpetrated by the Lebanese militias that allied with Israel in  1982.  They are horrifying.

            I absolutely oppose the acts of terror committed by hamas via suicide bombings and kidnappings and rocket launching against Israeli citizens.  I want peace.  I want Israel and the Palestinians of Gaza to live in peace together like they did before  1948.  So what will it take?  Because the Palestinians of Gaza are hostage to a group of thugs that will settle for nothing less than the destruction of the state of Israel,  and I guess even you can figure out that such a position is a no-starter for peace.

            So tell me Dharma Girl,  what is your idea for peace in this fight?  I very seriously would like to hear your good ideas for helping to solve this terrible problem.

            Truthinator

            {"commentId":4784819,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
              #932.4 - Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:52 PM EST
              Reply
              {"commentId":4786751,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

              Tony:

              I hope you will take the time to view the following video footage of a talk given by an Arab journalist,  then let me know what you think.  Add in the  h t t p  designation and colon;  then the  2 slashes.  You don't need the  w w w.  I doubt you'll hear anything receptive about it from Dharma Girl.  For one thing I doubt she's a girl;  and for another,  I believe she is one of the people to whom the Arab journalist is referring in her talk.  While I stand by my statement of abhorrence of the Sabra and Shatilla massacres,  I think you will get a flavor of the political motivation that served as background for those atrocities.

              Truthinator


              multimedia.heritage.org/content/wm/Lehrman-092706a.wvx

              {"commentId":4786751,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                Reply#933 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:40 AM EST
                {"commentId":4787230,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                Just finished the video. She is a brave Women. She is also the kind of person I was talking about when I said all it takes is one person saying "Enough is Enough". She even said something that I have suspected and that being that Hamas has a cell where I live. I'm not worried and maybe someone in the cell will read this and decide I'm a target also. If it happens it happens. I will say this on the matter and that is this "Military trained, No fear of dieing, and never make a target of someone willing to do what ever it takes to protect the ones they love."

                 She stated it is the radical elements we have to worry about the same as I stated above. I agree with that. In the meanwhile we need to find a way to stop the killing of those that are innocent. Ghandi said it best "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind". How can we stop killing in defense? How do we change the mind of the attacker?

                 Show them they can't win and expose the lies. Expose the lie of the Virgin after life. Expose the lie of intolerance. Expose the lies and present the truth that "We are all Human and that each life has meaning".

                {"commentId":4787230,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                  #933.1 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:36 AM EST
                  {"commentId":5004854,"authorDomain":"zena-788447"}

                  if that nonsense isn't hate speach i don't know what is, but i'll give an inside view, as i  can respond to all this easily:

                  1-the lebanese war was between various parties and sides, all of them were involved. u have to see both sides, good u mentioned the sabra and chatila massacre, this is an article written by fisk

                  so u can't blame it on muslims, although no proper muslim would do what she said they did .nobody is proud of the civil war in lebenon, these were mad times, thanks god we live in peace a long while ago and we will continue to build up our country. my best friends are christians, and i have been educated along with my sisters in a nun missionary school, in which half the students were muslims. So did my brothers go to Christian schools, and have Christian friends.

                  this woman is not brave, she is eaten by hate, i can't imagine what her life is. true bravery is to face up to ur fears and then to forgive, as we have done in lebenon when we had a chance to install peace. it isn't bravery to dedicate one's life to hate education and islamo phobia. If we should follow that logic, could we accuse christians of terrorism because of the long past Christian crusades?. U have to see the political side of the issue because in it lies the heart of it all. There are many people in oppression and occupied, and they happen to be muslim, do we deny them the right for freedom and dignity?

                   2-this woman and her family are "lahd" army group, that's an army of lebanese paid for by the israeli, that army contained a lot of muslims because they're majority in the south. so they're basically traitors that lebenon refuses to welcome back, because of the crimes they commited, they live now in israel as second class citizens, or elsewhere in the world.

                  3-the lebanese parties that were allies with israel have since long ago considered israel an enemy as do ALL the lebenese now, even those who commited war crimes along with them, and I can give u names in the government.

                  when this video was released there was  agreat uproar about it even from former israeli allies because it came in a time after we reached a common agreement long ago about our common enemy, it came up to stir up the peace and fuel hate, and even the patriarch of lebenon had said against it as it came from a so called lebanese.

                  4-almost half of the christians now are loyal to the opposition parties that are political allies to hizb allah, also almost half of the muslims are loyal to the government. so the political disagreement now isn't between religions, it's strictly political. Every partie now has half Christians and half muslims, and w'ere very proud that our fight isn't religious anymore.

                  5-if there wasn't moderates I wouldn't be talking to u, instead I would do as some did to blow up themselves in some western city among civilians. But I believe in the power of change through knowing the other and accepting it, our cause is strong to whoever is willing to see.

                  And I should say to this woman that I'm sorry, but I will never breed like 50 children like she claimed every muslim do, I will be happy with just 2. and I won't raise them to hate the west blindly.

                  At last, I will give an example of a Christian woman raised also in the south lebenon, and who dedicated her life as a singer to express through art her cause against Israelis, her name is Julia Boutros. she supports the islamic resistance in the south as do the majority of christians who have been under israeli occupation.

                  Another man is jilad atzmon, he is an Israeli born who served in the Israeli army, and who is sending a message through his music, exposing the lies and deciept of the state called Israel. U should read some of his articles, and please try to visit his website. As an artist myself, I cannot help but to salute these people who spread the message creatively instead of  blind hate speech. Read also the articles of Naomi klein and darryl li, and see this American documentary about the Palestinian issue seen by christian Palestinians

                  {"commentId":5004854,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"zena-788447"}
                  • 1 vote
                  #933.2 - Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:48 PM EST
                  Reply
                  {"commentId":4789660,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                  Tony:

                  Ghandi's enemy was the British.  They're not exactly famous for their suicide bombing tactics or their glorification of death, paradise, and virginity.

                  >>She stated it is the radical elements we have to worry about the same as I stated above. I agree with that.<<

                  She also stated that we won't see Islamofascist tyranny curbed until the 'great silent majority' of muslims bows up at the fanatics in their midsts - which means risking and even inviting death,  as this brave woman has done,  and in the name of world peace and security,  also even fighting to the death.

                  >>In the meanwhile we need to find a way to stop the killing of those that are innocent.<<

                  We all die eventually, Tony, but we do get to have some say in our quality of life while we are here.  Sometimes people die or are blinded in an altruistic sacrifice for people and principles in which we believe.  Life seems disinclined to present us with easy choices - although they may be easier for some than for others.

                  Truthinator

                  {"commentId":4789660,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                    Reply#934 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:45 AM EST
                    {"commentId":4792057,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                    I don't have time to read your post, Truthinator, and I thought we were in agreement that we don't really have much to talk about.  Your weaselly assertion that history books don't indicate  "Jews" bomb was a lie that isn't just annoying, it denies what Israelis are proud of, for the most part--Israelis are PROUD of their history of Zionist bombings.  This is what you posted:

                     You don't read about Jewish suicide bombers in history books,  do you? 

                    Disengenuous, at best.  Enough to be a big lie, to me.  Because the Zionists were more efficient bombers than the Arabs, they get a pass from you?  What you posted SUGGESTS that they weren't bombers when it was their turn to be treated like animals.

                    While they denied (officially) their side of the atrocities after Israel was formed, at least initially (such as when the Prime Minister insisted that the military massacre at Quibya was carried out by civilians they had no control over--hey!  does that sound familiar?  Do you fall for it when Hamas says it?), they publicized their terrorist acts prior to that.  They were also reported in news accounts at the time (the Brits didn't like being bombed, or their vehicles blown up), and are included in memoirs of members of some of the Zionists, who included high officials in the later State of Israel.  Prominent members of several of the Zionist political parties were on the committee leading the Irgun. Menachem Begin--later the 6th Prime Minister of Israel--was in charge of the Irgun when they bombed the King David Hotel, the British Officer's Club, and the Jerusalem Railway Station.  David Ben Gurion--later the first Prime Minister of Israel who lied about military massacres, but then a relatively moderate Zionist--agreed with Begin on the bombing of the King David Hotel, although he retracted his approval before they actually did it. Itzhak Rabin was in the Palmach and took part in the raid on the detention camp which liberated 200 illegal immigrants.

                    The Zionists who targeted British military and civilian infrastructure (for instance, the Irgun) prior to the finalization of the State of Israel were "heroes" and "freedom fighters" to Israelis, although the bombing of the King David Hotel drew widespread condemnation after the fact (all evidence supports that the Irgun had meant to avoid the 92 deaths that resulted--but they BOMBED).  Zionists did their damnedest to encourage illegal immigration by European Jews (hopefully even your history books suggest why) and then responded violently when the Brits treated illegal immigrants they intercepted inhumanely.  Inhumane treatment included blowing the boats immigrants sneaked in on out of the water (that wasn't the rule, as I understand it, but it happened), and herding them into detention that looked just like concentration camps.  The Palmach bombed at least two of the ships carrying captured illegal immigrants years before they staged a raid on one of the detention camps (in which they liberated about 200, I think.  I've wondered what happened to the others there--one of the boats the Palmach bombed with illegal immigrants in it was carrying 1,800.)

                    In any event, that stupid "show me the Jewish bombers" line is too ignorant for words.  To suggest that Jews didn't bomb and commit terrorist acts BEFORE NOW if you don't believe that what they are doing now qualifies as illegal,  is just a lie, and not even a lie Israelis tell.  They called their terrorists "heroes."  They bombed.

                     If you re-read Marek's post,  you will see that he does not call these people irrelevant.

                    Reread it yourself.  Here is the title and author of the piece on Arutz Sheva:

                    Why the Peaceful Majority is Irrelevant
                    by Paul E. Marek


                    Here is the title and author of the piece on the In Repair blog (it identifies the article as being written in February 2006):

                    Why The Peaceful Majority Is Irrelevant
                    By Paul E. Marek

                    The title on Celestial Junk (apparently his own blog):

                     Why The Peaceful Majority Is Irrelevant

                    From the body of the piece:

                     The peaceful majority were irrelevant. (referring to Russiains)

                    I stand by what I said about that.  Pretty to say it means something different?  You don't make it pretty to me, and neither does Marek.  And everything he posted would apply to the Jews who didn't resist when the Nazis decimated the various local populations.  So, not just immoral, but hypocritical as hell.  Apparently only the unresisting Jews get to be victims of the fanatics.  Every other non-resister is a collaborator, or irrelevant.

                    On the chance you are actually posting something different from what I have seen (or already responded to) I will come back when I have some time.  But you think I am an annoying murderer, and I think you are an irresponsible liar, and it is hard to see the point.  There are any number of things reasonable people can disagree on, but what I pointed out on your posts were FACTUALLY just wrong, except for the immorality (my opinion) of calling people irrelevant--which you now deny Marek wrote.  Facts aren't negotiable.  And I have no more respect for liars than you have for murderers.

                    {"commentId":4792057,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#935 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:21 PM EST
                    {"commentId":4796520,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                    You know what Dharma?  So far,  you're irrelevant.  I asked you for your ideas on how to solve the problem and bring peace forward,  and you reply with more accusations,  revisionist history,  focusing on the periods and semicolons of my remarks,  and generally perpetuating the very dynamic with me that resists peace in the region. 

                    Write to me again when you decide to answer my question.  Everything else gets ignored.

                    Truthinator

                    {"commentId":4796520,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                      Reply#936 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:30 PM EST
                      {"commentId":4797731,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                      Gee, I've gone from "all too relevant" to "so far, you're irrelevant."  That's a bit of a revision. 

                      I didn't get to you asking me for my ideas, but if I had, it would have been good for a laugh.  I'm a murderer because I dared to correct your non-factual post, and you want my ideas?  You haven't actually responded to any facts or ideas in opposition to what you've posted, so that is pretty silly.

                      Revisionist history...let's see, that would be like you posting:

                      There was an outlaw terror group that formed in 1947-1948 called irgun that operated outside the law or the approval of most of Israeli society.  They were not a political party that was elevated or  "elected"  to office as was hamas. 

                      I hadn't even seen that whopper when I posted who some of the movers and shakers in Irgun were...including prominent members of various Zionist parties who were on the committee that ran Irgun, and Menachem Begin, for instance.  Their bombing of the King David Hotel was "outside the approval of most of Israeli society" when the death toll won the Zionists disapproval from all over, after the fact.  The possibility of that little issue was what inspired David ben Gurion to retract his approval after he had given it.  And they bombed the King David Hotel in 1946.  Probably not before they were formed.  That is not a period or semi-colon.  You don't seem able to cope with facts any more than you can cope with anything that I post.

                      "Zionists wrote the book on Middle East terrorism" is not semantically equal to what you claim I posted.  "Jews" does not equal "Zionists" and "tyranny" is not some synonym for "terrorism".  That's not periods or semi-colons, either.

                      If peace in the region depended on me finding a way to get past your ego, I would definitely give it a try.  Since it doesn't, ignore away.  Maybe you can find someone else who will bother with your posts.  I wouldn't bet money on it though.

                      {"commentId":4797731,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#937 - Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:51 PM EST
                      {"commentId":4804474,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                      nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14goldberg-1.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1

                      {"commentId":4804474,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                        Reply#938 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:46 AM EST
                        {"commentId":4811525,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                        From my best Israeli friend:

                        Even my most left leaning Israeli friends approve the attack on Gaza. As Golda said, we can forgive the Palestinians for killing our children, but not for causing us to kill their children. Peace will come when they love their children more than they hate us.


                        Willy

                        {"commentId":4811525,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                          Reply#939 - Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST
                          {"commentId":4823345,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                          The Moral Battleground
                          by Melanie Phillips
                          What other country would, for showing such unparalleled moral scrupulousness, be vilified and libeled as Israel is?
                          And so now begins the second and most difficult stage. Inside Israel, there is both determination and dread as tens of thousands of Israel's conscript army are called to the front. Untold numbers of these soldiers will lose their lives as the result not merely of the genocidal aims of Hamas (and its Iranian puppet-master), but also the indifference and pusillanimity towards Palestinian terror displayed by world governments over the past six decades of Israel's fight for survival, along with the active encouragement of genocidal Islamists by leftists, Jew-haters, Muslims and useful idiots who were on such thuggish display yesterday in the co-ordinated demonstrations in British and other western cities.
                          Such people have made no protest at the bombardment of Israeli towns by more than 6000 rockets in the past six years, deliberately targeting innocent civilians. They have made no protest at the way Hamas has used Gazan civilians as human shields, situating its murderous arsenals beneath apartment blocks, in schools and hospitals and mosques in order to maximize the numbers of civilians killed (in order to manipulate all-too pliable western opinion). No, their protest only starts when Israel finally takes the military action aimed at stopping this genocidal barrage.
                          The worst thing is the moral inversion, in which the murderous victimization of innocent Israelis is ignored while their murderers are described as 'civilians' when they are final ly killed by the Israelis -- who are demonstrably taking care to avoid civilian casualties wherever possible. Tragically, civilians always die in wars; and unfortunately there will undoubtedly be more civilian casualties in Gaza -- along with deaths among Israeli troops -- as the war goes on. But the frenzied misrepresentations, double standards and moral inversion fuelling a hysteria in the west which in turn can only incite more genocidal violence are simply depraved.
                          Particularly striking in its malice is the way in which the treatment of wounded Palestinians in Israeli hospitals is ignored -- while news of the barbaric behavior of Hamas in Gaza's hospitals is airbrushed out of the picture. At WSJ's Opinion Journal, James Taranto noted that a report of this scene in a Gaza hospital briefly appeared in the New York Times a couple of days ago:

                          Armed Hamas militants in civilian clothes roamed the halls. Asked their function, they said it was to provide security. But there was internal bloodletting under way. In the fourth-floor orthopaedic section, a woman in her late 20s asked a militant to let her see Saleh Hajoj, her 32-year-old husband. She was turned away and left the hospital. Fifteen minutes later, Mr. Hajoj was carried out by young men pretending to transfer him to another ward. As he lay on the stretcher, he was shot in the left side of the head. Mr. Hajoj, like five others killed at the hospital this way in 24 hours, [my emphasis] was accused of collaboration with Israel. He had been in the central prison awaiting trial by Hamas judges; when Israel destroyed the prison on Sunday he and the others were transferred to the hospital. But their trials were short-circuited...

                          You won't find that passage now on the New York Times website because, soon after it appeared, it unaccountably vanished into the ether. Nor will many in Britain or the west be aware of this:

                          Dozens of Gaza Arabs are being treated in Ashkelon's Barzilai Hospital at the same time terrorists are bombarding the city. The medical facility, the largest on the southern coast, is in the line of rocket fire, and medical staff often have to stop caring for patients and run for=2 0cover during air raid warnings. The 500-bed Barzilai Hospital has close ties with Gaza City's Shifa Hospi tal, Barzilai deputy director Dr. Ron Lobel told the Associated Press. 'It might seem completely absurd, but we have the privilege to be doctors. Our medical ethics do not distinguish between patients. We treat whoever needs to be treated,' he said One Gaza Arab woman refused to identify herself to AP [Associated Press] because of fear of retribution by terrorists if it were known that her two-month-old granddaughter is being treated in an Israeli hospital. 'I am very sad and hurt. We want peace, not war,' she said as Israel began retaliating after hundreds of Arab rocket and mortar attacks, some of them lethal.

                          The moral inversion in the west is so egregious, so monstrous, that the better Israel is shown to behave the worse the vilification that rains down upon it. What other country in the world would show such restraint in the face of more than 6000 rocket attacks upon its citizens -- 6000! -- that it took seven years before going to war to put a stop to it?
                          What other country would treat individuals -- including proven terrorists --20from that enemy territory in its own hospitals?
                          What other country would continue to provi de essential foodstuffs and other supplies to those enemies who continued to fire rockets at it? What other country, when finally forced to go to war to stop the attacks, would show such concern to avoid the loss of civilian life that it contacts the population in enemy territory -- even households containing identified terrorists -- to warn them to flee from the imminent bombardment?
                          And what other country would, for showing such unparalleled moral scrupulousness, be vilified and libeled as Israel is?
                          Israel's behavior is moral, legal and proportionate. This conflict is revealing just who is on the side of morality, decency and sanity and who is not. The President of the Czech Republic, who is also the incoming president of the EU, has emerged in the former camp, declaring s toutly that Israel's behavior is both just and necessary. France's president Sarkozy, however, has called upon both sides to stop hostilities -- a moral equivalence which effectively gives Hamas victory by requiring Israel to abandon the defense of its citizens. Similarl y in Britain, Foreign Secretary David Miliband has repeated his call for an immediate cease-fire -- while Prime Minister Gordon Brown, has apparently complained to Israel's Prime Minister Olmert that "too many" people have died.
                          Would that be, perhaps, too many Hamas terrorists who have died? Would Brown have preferred that more of them continued to live so that they could carry on murdering more Israelis?
                          In startling contrast Farid Ghadry, President of the Reform Party of Syria, has written:

                          We Arabs must be the ones to stop Hamas and Hizbullah, rather than support their demonic and twisted logic of resisting development, enlightenment, and progress of the region. Even when development and enlightenment stare them in the face, their instinct is to destroy them pretending to safeguard their honor, the mechanics of which supersede all else including a happy life of fulfillment and accomplishments. So while we abhor violence of all kind, Israel's campaign against Hamas must continue to the bitter end not only for the sake of peace but also to help Arabs realize they have a choice: Destroy like Gaza or develop like=2 0Dubai. Will this happen soon? Maybe not, but if a wake-up call and a nudge, once in a while, to pierce through the fog of deceit perpetrated by Syria and Iran is what it takes to see the light, then we stand by the West and Israel in the only hope that an Arab Renaissance in the Levant may actually have a chance of resurrection.

                          Alas, many in the west don't stand with Farid Ghadry. They stand instead with Hamas. Whatever platitudes they mouth, it is clear that they really don't want Israel to survive at all. The moral dividing line in this battle is very clear. Those who stand with Israel are on the side of morality, justice, and civilization. Those in the media and public life who denounce Israel for having the temerity to defend its people are the fellow-travelers of barbarism. Having done so much to embolden and strengthen Hamas and Iran, who are playing them for suckers,20they are continuing to stoke the fires of irrational hatred and genocidal hysteria. As Israeli soldiers die, along with the Palestinian victims of Hamas whether as 'collaborators' or human shields, their blood will be on these hypocritical western hands.
                          This article originally appeared in Spectator.co.uk
                          Visit Melanie Phillips website at
                          http://www.melaniephillips.com

                          {"commentId":4823345,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                            Reply#940 - Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:19 AM EST
                            {"commentId":4852044,"authorDomain":"aufkint"}

                            Admirable and great journalism. Keep it up, please!

                            {"commentId":4852044,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"aufkint"}
                              Reply#941 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:53 PM EST
                              {"commentId":4852050,"authorDomain":"aufkint"}

                              Admirable and great journalism. Keep it up, please!

                              {"commentId":4852050,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"aufkint"}
                                Reply#942 - Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:54 PM EST
                                {"commentId":4854160,"authorDomain":"flapjack69"}

                                A letter to the citizens of Gaza from a concerned neighbour

                                Dear neighbour,


                                My name is David and I live in Israel , thirty minutes (or one minute rocket time) from you. I hope someday to have you over for a cup of tea. We have a lovely view from the balcony. On a clear day we can see our jets bombing your neighbourhood.


                                I think it's time we had a heart to heart. It's time you knew the truth. After all, what are neighbours for? You might have wondered why both you and your parents were born in a refugee camp. Why is it that even though we live only 30 minutes apart, I live in prosperity and you live in poverty and filth? Why you live in despair and hatred while we live in hope and love.


                                Here is the truth, neighbour: There really was a Holocaust. I realize you've been taught otherwise. I know, that ever since you were a small child you've been told that the Holocaust is something the Jews fabricated to justify taking your land. Well, dear citizen of Gaza, it really happened. Not very long ago. It happened. And guess what? It's NEVER going to happen again. The time in history when Jews were led to slaughter, persecuted, raped and pillaged is over and will never recur. Never.
                                 
                                Now we have our own country. Now we have the bombs. We will never forget what was done to our people and you better not either.


                                We don't hate you. We don't hate anyone. Jews are a peaceful people.


                                We do not want your land. We don't want oil. We don't want to rape your women or murder your children. We never tried to force our religion on anyone. Our eternal capital, Jerusalem, is open to all faiths to love and to worship. We treat your Arab brothers who live among us as equals. Our hand has been extended to peace with our neighbours since day one. We have proven this time and time again through numerous negotiations and extensive compromise.


                                We ask only for one thing. Leave us in peace. That's right. We have no other demands. Just leave us in peace. It's as simple as that. If you don't, we will fight back ferociously and mercilessly. We will destroy your homes and your cities. We will make your miserable lives even more miserable. If you don't want this to happen any more, leave us in peace.


                                Our soldiers are not motivated by hate but by determination. We embrace life and will do anything to preserve it. However, we will kill and die to protect our land and our way of life. That's what they should be teaching in your schools instead of useless lies. A terrorist is a terrorist. Sorry to be the one to break the news, but it's about time somebody told you that a terrorist is nothing more than a coward. Not a hero. Not a Shahid. There is nothing heroic
                                in blowing yourself up amongst a crowd of woman and children. Anybody can do it. Anybody can hide inside a school or a mosque and blindly fire rockets into cities, hoping to kill as many babies as possible. There is nothing courageous or admirable in these acts of cruelty. To take pride in an act of terror is pitiful and pathetic.
                                 
                                I know you've been raised to believe the contrary, but it is a lie. I have seen how your children are taught to commit suicide. How your suicide bombers are glorified. This is tragically sad. A real hero faces his enemy and doesn't hide in schools and hospitals. A real hero protects his people and will die for them but not among them.
                                 
                                Israel exists and it belongs to the Jewish People. I've seen your school books. I know that Israel has been omitted from your maps. Contrary to what you've been told, the State of Israel really does exist. Look outside your window. We are here and we are not going anywhere.
                                 
                                Dear Palestinian neighbour, it's time to deal with the facts. We love our beautiful little country. We will protect it with our lives. You are not getting it. This was explained to you in 1948. You got your country and we got ours. Your arrogant and stupid leaders promised you that you will get the whole thing. Thousands of lives have been lost for nothing. It's NEVER going to happen!
                                 
                                While you have been foolishly drooling over our land instead of nurturing your own, we have built one of the most beautiful and successful countries on Earth. We have done it not to spite our greedy neighbors, but rather in spite of them.
                                 
                                We've planted forests and quenched the desert. We've drained wetlands and culivated fields. We built universities, opera houses, superhighways, hospitals, skyscrapers and stadiums. We have millions of refugees, but no refugee camps. You could do the same.


                                Focus on what you have and not on what you will never have. It takes love, hard work and determination. We can help. We have experts and scientists helping developing nations across the globe. Accept the facts, lay down your weapons and join us in making this great region of the planet even greater.


                                Remember, we're neighbours.
                                ===================
                                David Rosenblatt, Sarigim , Israel – Jan. 9th, 2009 I'm trying to get thiis letter posted on Al-Jazeera and some other platforms. I know it will never get to its destination, but it was important for me to put my thoughts into words. Feel free to pass it around.

                                {"commentId":4854160,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"flapjack69"}
                                  Reply#943 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:50 AM EST
                                  {"commentId":4854459,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                                  Just got an update from a friend and I will attach part of it below. As I have stated and will continue when needed I do not take sides but for the side of Peace. My heart goes out to the people of both Countries that have nothing to due with the fighting except being caught in the crossfire. I pray that this ends soon so that lives can be saved.

                                  Dear friends,

                                  Spread the word - as the awful Gaza death toll passes 1000, our Ceasefire Now petition is being delivered worldwide through ads, phone calls, and meetings with world leaders. We urgently need to reach 1 million signatures this week, act now and forward this email:
                                  Sign Ceasefire Petition,
                                  see our US ads!




                                  Gaza is dying -- the battle has moved deep into its cities, jam-packed with 1.5 million civilians lacking food, medicine or water. President Bush undermined Thursday's United Nations ceasefire resolution and over 1000 people are now dead. The borders remain closed -- journalists can't get in, and desperate civilians can't get out.

                                  But the global movement to end this war is building -- as we spread the word the petition is at 430,000 signatures and rising, it has been delivered to top leaders at the EU, UN and Arab League, our US members are flooding their representatives with phone calls, and Avaaz members worldwide have donated over $120,000 to an ad campaign in key newspapers.

                                  The pressure is working -- so we're ratcheting it up with hard-hitting US ads pressing Barack Obama personally for an immediate change of tack, face-to-face petition deliveries to European leaders this week to get them to act, and working with Palestinians and Israelis to plan bold actions on the ground. But every one of these actions becomes stronger as more of us join the campaign. We need to reach 1 million signatures this week -- thank you for signing the petition already, let's all of us now take a moment to forward this email to all our friends and family so they can join us and be heard:

                                  avaaz.org/en/gaza_time_for_peace

                                  {"commentId":4854459,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                                  • 2 votes
                                  Reply#944 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:32 AM EST
                                  {"commentId":4854718,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                                  Thank you, Tony! 

                                  {"commentId":4854718,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                                  • 1 vote
                                  #944.1 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:19 AM EST
                                  {"commentId":4861115,"authorDomain":"levofer"}

                                  Israel already decided to cease fire,its objectives achieved..hamas will now have to prove to the world that it cares somewhat for the palastinian people and for the well being of the region.

                                  Israel will give peace a chance once more.  the bigger question is-will hamas and hezballha learn to love their children more than they hate Israel..and again i'll put forward the quote from Golda Meir former Israeli Madam Prime Minister..almost 40 years ago,but still so true-

                                  "we can forgive the terrorists for killing our children.

                                  we cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.

                                  we will only have peace with the arabs when they love their children more than they hate us".

                                  {"commentId":4861115,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"levofer"}
                                    #944.2 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:15 PM EST
                                    {"commentId":4872330,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                                     Israel will give peace a chance once more. 

                                    "...its objectives achieved..."  Now that they've killed a sufficient number of people.  Very admirable.  And will they give it the SAME chance as before, exercising sufficient control to STARVE Palestinians, even though they can't exercise enough to disarm them when they object without targeting civilian infrastructure and (not surprisingly) killing at least as many civilians as Hamas fighters?  Please don't waste my time with that assertion that nobody tries as hard as they do to spare civilian lives--the one who points a @!$%#ing missile at a school filled with civilians has the responsibility of shooting at civilians.  Hamas gets the responsibility when they push the button, Israel gets the responsibility when they do. It isn't complicated. And lying about it a thousand times is no more convincing than lying about it once.

                                    Here's another quote for you, IDF--and any other screen names you are posting under: it's from 1938

                                     Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."

                                     I'm sure you recognize the words of David ben Gurion, first Prime Minister of Israel, and Zionist freedom fighter for years before that.

                                    I wasn't there (or anywhere) in 1938, but while I agree with Tony in not finding any nobility or self-sacrifice in Hamas' willingness to sacrifice others, ben Gurion apparently did find something of that in the Arabs who fought him, even though he wanted them out of what would become Israel.

                                    Here's another, during World War II:

                                     If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel. 

                                    That Golda Meier quote doesn't look nearly the same when you consider ALL the things that Israelis are willing to value over the lives of their children.  In fact, it rather makes them look just like the Palestinians they vilify.

                                    Just like they did when they were relatively powerless, and being treated like animals.  What a surprise.

                                    {"commentId":4872330,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                                      #944.3 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:51 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      {"commentId":4863955,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                                      Just read a telling headline on this topic which might just say it all "Weapons Cache Horde Found In Mosque".

                                       Anyone care to answer this question cause I don't understand the thinking behind this.

                                       Why in the world wound you hide weapons in a place of spiritual healing and turn it into a Military Target?

                                       Whatever you want to call it Mosque, Church, Cathedral, etc..it is suppose to be a place for the spirit and sanctuary not a battle front for war. It's like hiding weapons in a school or hospital and your enemy finds out so it becomes a legitimate target. How heartless does someone have to be to put spiritual leaders, children, or the sick, wounded, and dieing at the head of a target list?

                                      {"commentId":4863955,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                                        Reply#945 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:39 PM EST
                                        {"commentId":4864413,"authorDomain":"levofer"}

                                        They say they love death more than we love life,i guess thats part of the answer.

                                        trying to get into a terrorist's mind is not an easy task my friend.

                                        {"commentId":4864413,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"levofer"}
                                          #945.1 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:29 PM EST
                                          {"commentId":4864584,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                                          That is one very scary thought. Sadly it has to much of the ring of truth in it. If I ever begin to really understand the thinking behind people like this I'm having myself committed to a mental hospital.

                                          {"commentId":4864584,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                                            #945.2 - Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:48 PM EST
                                            {"commentId":4872483,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                                            Why in the world wound you hide weapons in a place of spiritual healing and turn it into a Military Target?

                                            Two reasons, Tony, and you know both of them. 

                                            Civilian space is what they have.  Israel targets government buildings, religious structures, international schools, U.N. drivers on their way to pick up the food shipments allowed within a 3 hour cease-fire...there is no civilian target that is off-limits to Israel. 

                                            And Islamic law prohibits attacking religious structures, so Hamas thinks it makes Israel look bad when they blow up a mosque full of explosives.  Just like the hospitals and schools they also cache arms in.

                                            I know you know this, because you know they do the same in Iraq.

                                            And you know I disagree with you that buildings full of civilians can be made legitimate targets of war.

                                            They say they love death more than we love life,i guess thats part of the answer.

                                            That may have answered my idle question IDF.  I won't try to enter your fantasy world again.  Be well.

                                            {"commentId":4872483,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                                              #945.3 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:05 PM EST
                                              {"commentId":4873846,"authorDomain":"levofer"}

                                              No,actually only reason they do that is because they think Israel wont target those places,surprise,surprise for the hamas then when Israel decided finally to call their "bluff" and put a stop to all of it...

                                              this is the only name i sign under here,why would i use more? i have nothing to hide,and im actually very proud of the IDF,if hamas wouldent have used their own women and children to protect themselves and their leaders who were hiding behind those civilians,alot of innocents deaths could have been avoided.

                                              It is well documanted in numerous links for all to see the way those so called "militants" (who are actually nothing but cowards and terrorists) talk and educate their children about the value of dying and taking innocents with you while doing that for the sake of heaven and virgins...

                                              please dont tell me how Israelis value life or not Dharma Girl,you will not find any force in the world who will be as careful as the IDF  while dealing with enemy whos not scared of putting its own people in front of him just to save itself and gain world wide sympathy...

                                              Israel has done alot more for the palastinian people in caring for them and also in humanitarian aid than any other arab country ever did...Israel will keep helping the palastinian people now that the cease fire is in effect,and basically did so even without a cease fire...

                                              tell me Dharma Girl,what have hamas brought and did for the palastinian people of Gaza?  was picking this fight with Israel  really worth while? we all know there will be no blockade if no rockets were launched at Israel...does hamas really has the palstinian people's intrest in mind? or only its own agenda of wiping Israel off the face of the earth and taking alot of their own people while trying to achieve this dream agenda?

                                              Israel apologizes for any innocents deaths caused in this fight with terror,but urges the world to look closely and see who really is to blame for this terrible situation,and by that insuring the IDF never needs to go back into Gaza...

                                              ...hamas now knows Israel's reaction to its terror ways,time for hamas to decide which is more important-the impossible dream of 'destruction of Israel' or working with Israel and the world to bring a better life for the people in Gaza and the palastinian people all over the region.

                                              worry not Dharma if hamas decides finally to make the right choice here,Israel will be there side by side with the palastinian people every step of the way until they get the country they deserve,right next to Israel.

                                              ball is in hamas's hands,and once again the world awaits to see if they make the right choice.

                                              {"commentId":4873846,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"levofer"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #945.4 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:14 PM EST
                                              {"commentId":4873994,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                                              Fantasy.  Perhaps I wasn't clear.  I will only waste so much time on someone who can only live in it.  I won't respond to your posts again.  Be well.

                                              {"commentId":4873994,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                                                #945.5 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:28 PM EST
                                                {"commentId":4874144,"authorDomain":"levofer"}

                                                You can ignore me all you want..but lets hope hamas does not ignore the right thing to do here,the world and Israel are waiting for them to make the right choice,that is the choice of peace and life for their people and the people of Israel over more deaths and destruction.

                                                be well yourself.

                                                {"commentId":4874144,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"levofer"}
                                                  #945.6 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:45 PM EST
                                                  Reply
                                                  {"commentId":4873472,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                                                  Your right Dharma but it still isn't right for them to turn what would be shelter under Rules of Engagement into targets. I've seen and been in fights where it was kill or be killed in Iraq. My fighting days are over I hope. We made every effort to remain within the rules even when are enemies didn't. I didn't understand all of it then and I honestly don't want too now. While the memories will be with me always my feelings have soften. War is Hell on earth. No other creature can be as brutal and unmericful as man. No other creature can also be as kind. I found my peace and in it I also found the same person you shot at today as an enemy can be the same person you call friend tomorrow. Make of it what you will but for me at that one moment in time life began brand new.

                                                   No matter what Religion someone follows God still means love. Maybe people should keep that in mind before bringing guns into his House.

                                                  {"commentId":4873472,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  Reply#946 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:39 PM EST
                                                  {"commentId":4873898,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}

                                                  I don't always agree with you, Tony, but I think you exemplify courage and strength--you take the worst that you have seen and lived through, and instead of letting it deaden your ethical sense, you have let it open your heart.  However much we disagree, I admire your strength, and I want to be like that, too.  I'm not your fan club :) but if you know anything about the dharma--exactly that kind of fearlessness is a huge part of it.

                                                  In this case we do not disagree.  I understand why Hamas does that (not only defiling and endangering God's House, but schools and hospitals) but I do not think it is right, any more than I think it is right for Israel to target civilians and say they didn't blow up children, it was the fault of the ones they were trying to blow up for being where the children were.  Or for maybe being where the children were. 

                                                  Any more than I think it is right for Israelis to honor their own terrorists, who committed the same acts to achieve the State of Israel that they now vilify Hamas for doing when they are treating them exactly the way the British treated the Zionists--like animals.  And when the Palestinians want exactly the same thing that the Zionist's wanted.  When you treat people like animals, you just may be able to get them to act like animals.  Go figure.  That doesn't excuse such acts to me.  Not on either side.

                                                  I don't understand how the Israelis can pretend they don't recognize what the Palestinians are attempting to do, pretend that it is foreign to them, or pretend that if they keep on treating the Palestinians like animals, that they will suddenly wake up one morning and behave differently than they have, and than the Zionists did when they were treated that way.

                                                  I don't understand how they can fantasize that they are the only ones who have been "so good to their enemies" when they starve children and other innocents because of the acts of some adults, or that they are more careful of civilians than anyone else, ever, when they send missiles at them, or that they alone are merciful when they treat the wounds of some of the ones they didn't manage to kill, when that is required by international law.

                                                  I don't understand how Hezbollah and Hamas can pretend they don't know that Israel will eventually say "Enough" to random rockets that kill and injure and destroy property occasionally--a handful of times, over years--and then target civilian infrastructure, and civilians, and kill hundreds for every one Hamas (or whoever) killed.  Or how they can distribute the money supplied by other Muslims around to soothe the bereaved every time they invite Israel down upon civilians and believe that somehow that makes it acceptable since it does sometimes get them closer to what they fight for.

                                                  But I do understand why.

                                                  Yes.  It would be better if people could remember that God means love.

                                                  {"commentId":4873898,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
                                                    #946.1 - Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:20 PM EST
                                                    Reply
                                                    {"commentId":4999065,"authorDomain":"naditawakkol"}

                                                    I can understand that after centuries of persecution it's satisfying for a Jewish state to be the aggressor for a change, but there's a codicil that goes with that role. You don't get to act like a victim any more. "Poor little Israel" just sounds silly when you're the dominant power in the Middle East. When you've invaded several of your neighbors, bombed and defeated them in combat, occupied their land, and taken their homes away from them, it's time to stop acting oppressed. Yes, Arab states deny your right to exist, threaten to drive you into the sea, and all the rest of their futile, helpless rhetoric. The fact is, you have the upper hand and they don't. You have sophisticated arms and they don't. You have nuclear weapons and they don't. So stop pretending to be pathetic. It doesn't play well in Peoria.

                                                    Yes, I know, we Americans should talk--always trembling in our boots about terrorists and 'rogue states' and 'evil empires' when we have enough nukes to blow up entire continents, and spend more on arms in an hour than most of the world's nations spend in a year. But just because we're hypocrites and Nervous Nellies doesn't mean you have to be.


                                                    Calling Hamas the 'aggressor' is undignified. The Gaza strip is little more than a large Israeli concentration camp, in which Palestinians are attacked at will, starved of food, fuel, energy--even deprived of hospital supplies. They cannot come and go freely, and have to build tunnels to smuggle in the necessities of life. It would be difficult to have any respect for them if they didn't fire a few rockets back.

                                                    The Israel lobby has a hissy fit when anyone points out that Israel has been borrowing liberally from the Nazi playbook, but to punish a whole nation for the attacks of a few--which Israel has been doing consistently in Gaza--is a violation of international law--a law enacted in response to the Nazi practice. And please, spare us the hypocrisy--borrowed, I'm ashamed to admit, from my own government--of saying 'every effort is made to avoid civilian casualties'. When you drop bombs on a crowded city you're bombing civilians. Bombs don't ask for ID cards. Bombs are civilian killers. That's what they do. They're designed to break the spirit of a nation by slaughtering families. They were used all through World War II by all sides for that very purpose. And that's what they're intended for in Gaza.

                                                    And please, Israel, try to restrain yourself from using that ridiculous argument, borrowed again from Bush (how low can you get?), that Hamas leaders "hide among civilians", by living in their own homes. Apparently, in the thinking of Israelis, they should all run out into an uninhabited area somewhere (try to find one in Gaza), surround themselves with flares and write in the sand with a stick, "Here I am!"

                                                    Yesterday you shelled three UN-run schools, killing several dozen children and adults, despite the fact that the UN had given you the precise coordinates of all its schools in Gaza. So much for 'taking every care to avoid civilian casualties'. You seem to feel you can kill whomever you like, whenever you like, and wherever you like, just because you have a blank check from the United States. Every day this assault goes on you're demonstrating contempt for the UN, the international community, and human life. Talk about a rogue state.

                                                    You might also pay attention to the fact that your outdated policy of macho bullying--the policy you've been following for decades--isn't working! The Palestinians are human. They're not dogs you can beat into submission. The worse you treat them, the more they'll fight back. That's what it means to be human. The more you oppress people, the more people resist. We dropped more bombs on Viet Nam than all the bombs dropped by all nations in World War II. Not to mention napalm, herbicides and all kinds of sophisticated land mines. But did they bow down and kiss the feet of their conquerors? They did not.

                                                    You'll have to kill them all. And when you do, you may finally lose the support even of the United States.
                                                    Remember that American support is based entirely on the notion that no politician can win without the Jewish vote. But not all American Jews think Israel is on a divine mission from God. A great many American Jews believe in international law and justice.

                                                    I can understand how Israel could resent this lecture coming from an American. After all, isn't this what we Americans did? Came into someone else's country, slaughtered 95% of its inhabitants and took over? And didn't we go all Nervous Nellie whenever they fought back, accusing them of aggression to justify even more genocidal slaughter? And didn't we get away with it?

                                                    Yes, but I'm sorry to tell you, Israel, you came on the scene too late. Genocide just doesn't fly any more. I know it isn't fair, you have every right to feel aggrieved about this, but the world's smaller, cowboys are passé, and bullies aren't heroes any more.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    {"commentId":4999065,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"naditawakkol"}
                                                    • 2 votes
                                                    Reply#947 - Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:07 AM EST
                                                    {"commentId":4999141,"authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}

                                                    You forget that they didn't start it. They let there temper get the best of them and responded over the top.

                                                     I just hope Hamas doesn't break the cease fire. Tension is high and Hamas has to put an end to the tatics it used in the past. They have lost the "But we only hurt a few and our attacks where minor" excuse. Very few Leaders fell sorry enuff to let Hamas off the hook for starting something that never should have happened.

                                                    {"commentId":4999141,"threadId":"454192","contentId":"2249768","authorDomain":"antoniowillia20"}
                                                      #947.1 - Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:20 AM EST
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