Many feared dead after Israeli strikes in Gaza

People only read what is placed in front of them. Liberal editors attempt to form liberal opinions under the guise of "sparking debate" however they ignore the reality that the public is not filled with intellectuals who enjoy seeking opinions other than their own.

The misery in the region needs to be stopped. No one will argue that. Rather than apply a final solution there has been a vain attempt to please the uninformed by suffering until the case is made that one party to the violence is determined to be guilty. The old ploy of pointing fingers always comes into play and causes people to lose sight of the fact that Hamas is not a child welfare organization and they have stooped to brainwashing babes to perpetuate the bloodletting. That fact points directly toward guilt and there can be no question that youth reared under those circumstances are incapable of living in peace. It is too bad they will die with as much blood as they can let but it is time to end the cycle of breeding butchers and begin the rearing of innocents in peace.  

In 1913 Great Britain exiled much of the Jews from their island and sent them to Palestine where they were welcomed by the majority, the Palestinians.  It was after WWII that Europe and the West carved Palestine up for the Jews.  Jews were the minority ethnic group but with the assistance of the U.S. and Europe they had enough weaponry to attack the Palestinians and take more land.  This is why many people want a two state solution at the previous 1967 borders; the borders set down before Israel became such land mongers.

I know some would like to hate the Palestinians just because they are Arab.  I know some think we should side with Israel no matter the errors in that logic because of old guilt in our delayed entry into WWII and the genocide of the Jews.  However, the Palestinians were not contributors to that genocide and there were far more people killed in other groups than the Jews (i.e. the slaughter of peasants in Russia by Stalin, who we buddied up to).  Plus, in the last Palestinian elections held (which were ruled to be fair and legal elections by the international community) placed Hamas in charge of most areas of Palestine's government.  Within a week of these elections, Israel had arrested several elected officials on the grounds that they belonged to Hamas.  You can't promote free and fair elections and then cry and arrest people because you do not like who was elected.

And as for land grabbing and swaping that occured over hundreds of years ago, Americans are more occupied with that than the Palestinians; they are more concerned over the injustice of land splitting after WWII, the continued building of settlements, the treatment of the Palestinians living in Israel who are treated as less than citizens, the built roads that only Israelis are allowed to travel, and the cutting off of medical, water, electrical, food, and sanitary assistance. 

FYI - Hamas, when they were placed in power by the elections, agreed to the two-state solution along the 1967 borders; Israel refused.

Thank you, Barber Of Civility! You have said what I thought needed to be said and I appaud you.

to The Barber of Civility 2

I am not sure we would of heard Tony at all if it was not for IDF action. The guy would not even bother mentioning in his article daily atrocities Israel persevered through.

On one hand I can understand. Our very own United States State Department was silent on the issue until IDF action. So, why should a journalist with employment totally dependent on being in line with his news – paper position run way ahead of the entire train of official political machine of his own country.

On the other hand his article blacked out any mentioning of daily atrocities against Israel. And if you look throughout the forum he would not even gratify people calling out this issue with a single word of response. Let me point out that he went out of his ways to talk to folks calling him names. So, you can not dispose of it by mere personal trait of being laconic.

While I am not his customer I can not miss that where he is silent Israel perseveres through daily atrocities and death.

The only person wielding high diplomatic office to speak forcefully on the eve of Christmas regarding 70 Grad rockets fallen on Israel in just 24 hours calling it atrocities against civilian population was UN Secretary General Bi Ki Moon. It is quite remarkable that the only reason we know about it is Arab press, nailing him as “Israeli accomplice” No thanks goes to Tony and his customer. Was it left to our moderator, that part of the world concerns would be where some of the less abridged posters placed Israel on this forum – dead.

Perpetuating violence by accepting the violent is unacceptable. Be done with them quickly and completely.

I think thats what they are trying to do hence "perpetual violence."  like i stated above no logic/no sense...

The problem is far greater than Hamas. The whole of the Arab world would like to see Isreal disappear. Isreal might be able to destroy Hamas eventually, but the bigger picture is the Arab world. Isreal has no alternative but to negotiate peace from their relative strength. The Arab world is too big for Isreal to defeat.

The problem is when there is hope the biggoted will have legitimacy. The entire Arab world is not biggoted. Sure there are remote areas and places where biggots openly teach however they are growing smaller in number as education spreads.

The Arabs are not the problem, it is the Persians (Iranians) who are armed to the teeth and looking for a fight. They play a mean shell game too.

Eric, yes maybe I lumped every Arab under the same brush. There are Arabs who don't want the destruction of Isreal although the Arab world tried in the 7-day war, I think. I suppose, I was meaning history can repeat itself, if allowed.

True. Unraveling the mystery of the religion that governs the faithful is the key to ending its hostile ability. Start by reading this fatwa;

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=82482&Option=FatwaId

Arabs, Iranians, .......

There is Iran that is independent from U.S. capitulation and strong enough to stand up for the rights of Palestinians and other subjugated people.

Then there are Arab states, almost all of them client states of U.S. and in order to preserve themselves in power, they have compromised their people for the Americans the most outstanding among them are Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. All absolute and brutal dictatorship and allies of the U.S. 

Amir - Are you telling us that Iran and other so called independent Muslim states are not brutal barbaric despotic dictatorships. Please name for me one Muslim country (out of 52 or 53) that is not totally dysfunctional, that does not have a despotic dictatorship. that has a democratic government, that allows it's people to be free, That has a literacy rate over 25%, that allows women full equal rights including the right to be educated. That does not execute gays and adulterers. If not for oil they would look like they were still in the stone age & the ones that have no oil are still in the stone age, the rest are in the bronze age. It is the Muslim religion that has held back all these countries and kept them among the most backward impoverished underachieving uneducated countries in the world. Europe didn't begin to progress until they threw off the shackles of the Catholic church. It's time for the Muslim world to relegate their religion to a place of much reduced power and influence. 

TheBarber,

Give me over 3 billion dollars a year and a piece of desert, and I will also turn the desert to farmlnad and forest.  Add to it over 4 billion dolalrs in taxpayer money in arms and sophisticated weapons, and i will expand more and more into my neighbors lands and settle there. 

That's what Egypt gets, and they're a big, fat zero.  It's not just the money.  It's the people, the talent, the will.

Amir, the Palestinians have been given Billions by the US and Europeans, most of it stolen by their crooked thieving terrorist leaders like Araft who left his wife $20 Billion after he died. She lives in a $25 Million condo in Paris while Arafat stole all the money from his "beloved Palestinians". The Palestinians could have had a good life and peace at any time but they reject peace. They'd rather destroy Israel than live in peace. If there was peace which Israel wants the Palestinians could have a good life with plenty of foreign and Israeli investment, jobs and a modern affluent lifestyle. They're not ready to become civilized and join the 21 st Century! They'd rather be terrorists killing even their own Muslims who disagree with the extremists.

These so called brave warriors and freedom fighters (from the so called protesters like Cindy Sheehan) killed my friend's son.His offense,as a Corpsman he was doing his job,trying to save someone's life.That was probably what tipped me over the edge as I am currently on Active Duty deployed to Iraq.As for Cindy Sheehan I feel for her loss but when she mentioned Israel in one of her tirades she crossed the line and I'm glad the press have ignored her pretty much since.Losing a child is a terrible thing but to side with the cowards who took his life?I don't get it.

Fred G:

Your son died by the hand of Hamas and Palestinians?

My son didn't die.Pay attention.My friend's son died at the hand of cowards in Iraq.I could use terms like Islamic radicals,but didn't.I figured an intelligent person would draw his(or her) own conclusion.As long as you brought it up I had a friend as a child whose cousin was slaughtered by the cowards in Munich in 1972.

I couldn't agree more.

Are these two men's sons killed in Iraq or fighting for israe?  If in Israel, they had no business fighting FOR a foreign country. If this happened in Iraq, why are they changing the subject from Israeli bombing of Palestinians to Iraq?

By the way, Cindy Sheehan is a patriotic Amerian who protested the wrong, interventionist, hypocratic policy based on lies that has led to the death not of just (probably) these two "sons" but over 4000 other young men and women.

Hamas makes the rules for war when it reigns rockets down on Israeli civilian populations. Israel should abide by the same rules. There are no civilians being killed only Hamas terrorists and their supporters.

We would prefer they bombed them having a much larger gathering, like when they abduct a Jew and kill him.

Both German DW and Iranian Khabar TV reported 210 Killed and 800 wounded. Some of the wounded are allowed into Egypt for medical help since Gaza hospitals have no medicine and equipment thanks to Israeli blockade.

Well if you are talking to me and I am not sure you are, I was there, Protecting Israel from SCUD attacks in 1991. Again, what did Israel do to cause Iraq to shoot these unguided Terror weapons into ISRAEL???? I went back in 2005. I have seen first hand the hate that is on both sides of the fence. I saw a Palestinian who was burned in a stove fire while using gas instead of Kero fuel and it blew up on her. The Jews were going to treat her in the their Burn Hospital but when this person was transported in the back of a pickup to the Israel side of the fence,the Army searched her and found a "BOMB BELT" under her sheets. A nice present for the JEWS from their Palestinian neighbors for helping this poor victim. Look it up, I saw it happen. This is what they deal with every day.

And what do you gain by loving he who loves you? Love he who hates you Jesus said.

While I certainly do not take the side of the Palestinians in this altercation, Lamb, your post is a puzzle. How can you, in one sentence, call the residents of the Gaza strip vermin which must be exterminated... and then offer the the "Love and Peace" of whatever lord you serve in the very next breath?

Can you not see that it is exactly religious attitudes such as yours that have led to this, as well as most other, terrible conflicts? I truly wish religion WAS the opiate of the masses... then you would all be too stoned to do much harm. Meanwhile, keep your religion... I will, instead, follow God.

Funny, I do not practice religion, I read the Bible and follow God also. I am talking about them (on both sides) feeling the inner peace and love that only Christ can offer, I am sure that both sides have a few motivated by hate and the flesh and not the right thing; however, that land does belong to Israel, they have the right to fight the occupants. The end.

Lamb you and others posters that make this point ignore the opinion of many Orthodox Rabbis.  There are many Jewish scholars who are in fact anti-Zionist on the basis that Jewish scriptures do not support the idea that a Jewish state ought to exist currently.

For more information Google “Neturei Karta International, Jews United Against Zionism”.

For those who wish a very quick overview of anti-Zionist jews position, there is a short video at:

*myspace*com/index*cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1323449152

(Replace the asterisks with dots (periods) and paste the link into your browser.


This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

Newsvine doesn't seem to be friendly to links being posted.

I found the aforementioned short video on the "myspace.com" UK site.  It is called "Jewish groups say that Israel should not exist".

This has been a Dr. Zook post:  "Just enough truth to be believable."

CGR, you are very right.

Islamic radicals are evil indeed. They fail to see the truth about their religion and thrive on hate and anger. What kind of life is that? When they are done with the infidels they will turn against their women. They already treat them like manure.

I highly recommend a documentary named "Obsession" you will see what they are about and what they teach their innocent children. They poison their minds and crush their spirits. If you thought Hitler was bad think again, these guys are worse...much worse.

If people simply read the Fatwas they live under then this crap about a being peaceful would be exposed. In reality they are obliged to kill or jihad in order to spread Islam.

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=82482&Option=FatwaId

Another good documentary is "Fitna" by a Dutch lawmaker named Geert Wilder. These extremists want world domination.

they dont need an excuse! they hate everybody! you just have to read other blogs on newsvine to see that and its usually the same people.Most of them are seeded for that purpose

Cooper

It is not about money it is about Religion. The Muslims want their religion to be the only religion.

Yes, Israel occupies land once owned by the Palestinian then again so does other Countries and the Palestinian do not attack them, why because they are of the Muslim faith.

amir-594944

If anyone is commenting genocide it’s the Muslims, do you really believe the Muslims suicide boomers only that out military forces when the blow up school busses and markets.

Leroy: Religon is just the face of the reality. It is about the money that Hamas has control of. The people that teach hate do so from both sides. It is the money that drives Muhllahs to teach hate so blood continues to be shed. With that they generate sympathy for a cause. With that they recieve donations that can and do become millions. That is what they are really after. Every war that has ever been fought. Thats EVERY war. has been about gold. Nothing else. If you get past the twisted reasoning and public displays to the heart of it all, it's nothing more than gold ie. money that is at the heart of all of it. For over 3000 years. Just gold.

The Muslims have been killing in the name of their religion for hundreds of years and I do not think it will stop just because they get paid money to do so.

They want their religion to be the world’s only religion.

You've probably never had to deal with the "Palestinian" so you can afford to be magnanimous.

So would the world be a better place if "Palestinians" were rounded up and disposed off?

If we disagreed and I throw a rock at you is it okay for you to shoot a missile up my kazoo in retaliation?

People are being used as pawns on both sides.....ever see how each year a small group of both meet at the border to exchange goods as a goodwill gesture? This should be the place to build upon.

When that "hate" of you turns into action and your mother is killed by one I would expect that your tune will change.

bull that is about the best comment i have read on these blogs in weeks its refreshing to read, thank you.I myself am a white christian middle class republican and i just cant stand the way my fellow americans talk about other people

bob do you hate the entire population for the actions of a few

Where hate exists love cannot.

I have done my share of hating and that which comes with it, I try to be done with that emotion yet still struggle from time to time.

How would you attempt to solve this if you could Bob?

 Where hate exists love cannot.

You just got done telling us your Mom hates the Palestinians and you love them.  Look, you can't just tell someone who wants you dead that you love them and everything will be all right.  This is pie in the sky thinking.  Israel has held their hand out time and time again to the Palestinians and just gotten it bit.  Your mom knows this.  Israel is defending herself.  There comes a point where you have to take sides.  There is evil in the world.  You can't wish it away by buying the world a Coke! 

I don't know if Mom hates them or just don't trust Muslims, And if I am right with the Lord what will the one who kills me do for me by killing the flesh? Jesus said fear the one who can kill the soul.

I don't live in an area where many want me dead, but I have been in such an environment and found it easy to hate back to survive.

I think your getting too personal in your view of the situation here.  Israel is a nation with elected leaders who are responsible for the safety and security of its people.  The Palestinians are sending rockets into Israel.  In order to stop this from going any further, the Israelis have a right and duty to respond.  Can you, at least, see that?

Israel does not have the ability to control what the Palestinians are teaching their children, but they do have the ability to stop them from carrying out their beliefs.

Not personal at all and yes I do see that, but I know it won't make things better.

Have a good day CGR, going to spend the rest of the day with my wife and children.

Andy,

You're right...keep God out of it...Now is the time for Israel to get it's military in it.

Trouble is God loves us, but some of us don't love either God or ourselves. Love is not on the table. Power, control, greed is is served up on the table.

It is their punishment for turning from God a long time ago.

 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 Oh yeah!  God takes sides!

 For thus says the LORD of hosts, "After glory He has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you, touches the apple of His eye.  For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves.

God loves us all, but the Jew is His first love and that will never change!  Retribution will come for Israel!  You can count on it!

CGR..........and a hearty AMEN!

Only after they recognize his son as their saviour.....we are held by the new testament CGR.

“I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

  Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers:  a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved

Romans 11:25 

 This IS New Testament I'm talking about, Runaway.  I don't read any conditions in there.

Jeez folks, this has nothing to do with religion, it is all about real estate.  Plain pure and simple, it is a land dispute.  Land is what most, if not all wars are about.  One group wants the other groups land and resources.  Do you think we would have invaded Iraq if we didn't want the oil?  Sure we would have felt bad that Saddam was a cruel sicko, but we sure wouldn't have gone over there for any other reason than we wanted their oil.

Jeez, Catydid, this IS about religion.  The Jews and the Muslims are fighting over Jerusalem both claiming the land was given them by God through their father Abraham. 

Jews and Arabs are half-brothers.  Abraham had a son, Isaac, by his wife Sarah who was barren, but whom God promised a son.  The Jews are descendants of their offspring and rightful heirs of Israel.  Abraham also had a son by Sarah's maidservant, an Egyptian named Hagar.  Hagar's son was Ishmael.  Arabs are the descendants of Ishmael.  They claim to be the rightful heirs through their father Abraham.  The problem is that they are illegitimate offspring and therefore have no birthright to Abraham's inheritance. 

And, no, we didn't invade Iraq for the oil.  We haven't taken a drop of oil from Iraq. 

You are very naive and misinformed.  Stop reading left-wing propaganda and believing your college professors.  You might learn something.

AMEN!!!! keep preaching cgr. It is so refreshing that some still believe and see the truth. See you in heaven...

As if man can change what God has willed....there will be peace but it won't last long.

Fred G. from N.C. said:

10 years ago President Clinton offered Yasser Arafat everything the Palestinians ever asked for and yet he (Arafat) turned it down.  Why?

Why would Arafat accept a deal which would give Israel strategic control over the West Bank and Gaza, which included air space and borders.  Israel would have also retained permanent sovereignty over most of East Jerusalem, including Haran Al-Sharif.  This was not "everthing the Palestinians ever asked for".

Baboon

Your name is right on.

If you think the Arabs rockets are harmless then why not sit on one when it goes off and prove it is harmless.

Dead children are dead children are dead children. Had they been "JEWS", that is ok with you????????

Strap a dozen on yourself and crank em off and see if ya can find them 72 virgins you must think live somewhere. What the hell is wrong with you? Fireworks? What killed the 2 kids, a car?

That statement "Hamas will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood," is why this BS in the will never stop.

Thank you.

Another Jew hater exposed.

Leah, Your post is the best one I saw today! That's the point; The jews are stealing all the Palestinian land, they've refused to accept that Hamas is the DEMOCRATICALLY elected government there, unlike Fatah, which is an American/ Israeli puppet government. The Israeli/American position seems to be to put all the Palestinians into one big ghetto, untill they disappear, something that was done previously in history, and not deal with the UN resolutions time and again declaring Israel the aggressor in this situation,and demanding that the ongoing theft of Palestinian land be returned to Palestinians, and further settling of this stolen land be returned to the Palestinians, as declared by the United Nations.. Long ago, I was very sympathetic to the Jewish cause. Not anymore, they' ve become the second biggest terrorist state, second only to the USA. I believe most inteligent people would recognize the fact that Israel is the USA's outpost for expansion into the oil rich Arab lands. That's why the spend BILLIONS on supporting Israel. My opinion of course.

So, then... you are saying that the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of the Palestinians has NOT been firing upon Jewish settlements containing civilians for... well.. a few years now?

Because frankly, I don't care if the fire-power is weak or strong, if any neighboring country were firing on American homestead, you can bet your bootie we would retaliate swifty and decisively. And that is exactly as it should be.

Leah.....you obviously missed the news article on msnbc approx. a month ago....the Saudia Arabia textbooks for elementary school kids.......teaching  children to hate America and Israel.

google it and read the entire article.

Mike-675265

Are you comparing the Jews of Israel to the Nazi’s?

Tell me what brain washing College you went to so I can make sure my children do not attend a College that teaches your lopsided view of history.

Muslims are thought from a early age to kill all that are not of the Islam faith, the suicide Muslim boomers kill children and women all the time, so in fact there are no innocent victims.

The Jews are the new NAZI'S and the Palestinians the new Jews. 

Leeroy the only brainwashed victim is you and it sounds like you need to go to college to learn to think for yourself.

Quit spreading false claims that blanket a whole religion.

Israeli's are the biggest TERRORISTs in the world period

So it's okay for the Palestinians to kill Jews? That's basically what you are saying. I disagree. And where do you find all these "innocents", any civilian who allows their home or land to be used to attack another is no longer "innocent". If anything it's the Palestinians trying to carry on Hitlers work.

mike786768

I  propose a new rule for civil discourse in a civilized society: anyone who compares what the Nazis did to the Jews of Europe during the Holocaust with what the Israelis are doing with regard to the Palestinians, must be disqualified from being taken seriously on any issue relating to Jews, Israel or the Middle East. Such people have a right to express their obscene and barbaric views, just as anti-Semites are entitled to express views denying the Holocaust. But they should be treated as pariahs by all decent people who believe in nuanced and calibrated consideration of complex and divisive issues.

Kpr37,

You can propose all you want the Jews/Israeli's are committing a Holocaust/genocide on the Palestinians. Just like Hitler did to the Jews matter of fact the Israeli's are the new NAZI'S and the Palestinians the new JEWS haha! You now see how Hitler must of felt about the Jews like you feel about  the Palestinians no big deal right? Its all their fault right? They brought the civilized israeli society upon themselves right? 

Civil discourse?? Civilized society?? WTF are you talking about?? The Israeli terror state has occupied a country for 60 years the longest in modern history and the war crimes are to many to list. The Palestinians have stick and stones compared to the cowardly Israeli's arsenal. You have been brainwashed by the American Jewish owned media. The are freedom fighters fighting the NAZi Jews! So wake up and see the light

You have to be a jew.

What's it feel like to want a exact a Holocaust on a defenseless people?

It's exactly how Hitler must of felt about Jews and now your feeling the same way.

He should of finished the job once and for all and we would be in this mess right according to your way of thinking right WHATNEXT?

No Mike, we'd be fighting on our shores. When they succeed with Israel they will go to Europe, then here.

Besides, who is firing rockets on defenseless people? Get that stopped and I bet Israel stops.

I believe the Hamas 'facilities' are like 'police stations'. What, you don't have any police stations where you live? What, they all out in the boonies away from populated areas? That makes alot of since.

bobnob,

I'm debating weather I should even waste my time writing you back. You are very uneducated on this subject seeing what you have written. Wow!!! Scary!!!

What rock did you crawl from under?

To use your analogy fighting on our shores what if two other countries in Europe decided to put all the Arabs around the world in your state would you be okay with it Bobknob? Then the Arab proceeded to commit genocide and ethnic cleansing because they oonly wanted an all Arab state called Arabaeli would you be okay with it Bobknob? Then they proceed to humiliate and torture for 60 years so you would just leave your own state because you can't take it anymore would that work you bobknob? Are you starting to get the feel of what is happening over there bobknob?

Enough said for now bobknob.

We will not be fighting on our shores we never have! We have fought on everyone elses shores though. I wonder why they all hate us? Couldn't have anything to do with all the lost wars we have started or entered. 

Americas backing of the Israeli terror state has created more killing, wars, and hate for us than anything any terrorist group could put ever dream up or imagined bobknob. I will leave it at that before I go off on stuff thats way over your head.

Well stated! Maybe you can get the MSM to quote you. Ahhhh, theres no money in printing useful observation only hype and discord.

They run the "country"... first of all they have not been aloud to function as an independent country..... hence the power of their extremists.... SECOND Israel has had its share of extremist leaders.

As an American I will do everything in my power as a voter and activist to cut off aid to Israel.  This is not to say I do not wish Israel PEACE or agree with it's right to exist but it is that I also believe that Palestinians have rights.  America should not support the EXTREMIST government of Israel any more than it should support Hamas... AMERICA should seek a policy that could truly lead to Peace.. all we can do in America is not help perpetuate the Israeli occupation and by that the extremism in Palestine.

PEACE